G – So Mars goes from being a planet with little green men, to being “dead”, to being a planet with massive potential for sustaining life….. I love the way science works…… no dogma to mire it down….
B – Science does have dogma. For instance, they’ve adopted the philosophy of materialism, so whenever they come across evidence for God it is immediately dismissed because it doesn’t fit their dogma. An example is the “big bang theory,” which strongly suggests that the universe had a beginning and someone had to start it.
G – Actually, that was my point. Science is moving way from materialism (be glad to offer evidence of this). And, even though they sometimes don’t admit to their errors, they are willing to move onward with the latest evidence. In my judgement, that is far better than being stuck in a dogma, after evidence has been given, and not admitting to the evidence and coming to a new plausible position. Part of the reason for science standing in hardcore materialism for so long, was a defensive position against those who push the concept of a separate God…… and a seven day creation….. and young earth theories…… and…………. which are all examples of religion standing dogmatic ground and against scientific research…..
B – I doubt that Gerry. This was argued by the biologist Douglas Axe in his fairly recent (2016) book, “Undeniable: How Biology Confirms Our Intuition That Life Is Designed.” He basically shows how, biologically, Darwinian evolution is impossible. In spite of this, any suggestion of a Designer is dismissed on the grounds that it is endorsing creationism and thus a creator.
- G – My very point Bradley O. Burns, if they start to talk about the design in life, the intelligent life folks start dancing up and down….. seeing a biological design DOES NOT PROVE Theism…… it proves biological design……
- G – Intelligent design folks get grumpy if they smell any sign of science saying “we discovered this, and THEREFORE”…… yet, when the researchers are not willing to make assumptions based on what they are finding, which agree with the intelligent design folks, they are pissed off……. the sword has two sharp sides…..
Nope, wasn’t talking about Darwinian evolution. But that is a good example. Rather than taking a hard and fast dogmatic position, if we move forward with the evidence, it is a far more reasonable method…..
B – Although the ideas in the article remind me of C. S. Lewis’ space trilogy.
G – Do you admit to the psychology of the situation? When one side is too far left, the other side has to “lean out” to keep equilibrium?
B – The pendulum effect.
G – So part of the reason why science went so heavily on the side of materialism, was a self-defense mechanism against the church which wished to stomp it out….. and in some groups, is still trying to take scientific research, and twist it to prove its dogmas…… so don’t hold your breath thinking that maybe someday soon, those scientists will jump up and down and say “we were wrong….. intelligent design is right”…. but it might not be too long before they are saying “it is plausible that there is innate deep awareness in and beyond the universe.”
G – Quantum physics does not support hardcore materialism
Hardcore creationism is not a tenable position, based on what is being discovered. For myself, the only tenable position is that the creator and the created are one. (Hardcore materialism is not a tenable position either)
Intelligent design assumes a separate designer. This is where science says “we have no proof of that”.
But more and more proof is happening to show that the ” creative system” has deep awareness….. and I think if the folks who are sticking hard and fast to “hardcore creationism” continue to do so, science will be popping up one of these days, far ahead of those folks….. with a tenable position which looks far more like the “embryo-ism” or a transcending pantheism, and is a plausible point of view.
The reason I am confident to say this, is that chaos theory (cwhich was possibly more responsible for the evolution/creation war than materialism) is breathing its last breaths….. after digging through some layers which seemed to be telling scientists that the root of things gets more and more chaotic, they ARE seeing an intelligent system lying beneath…..
Saying that awareness is a characteristic of “the essence” behind everything,…… is not saying the same thing as “everything came from a big bang”. To say that this is what science is suggesting, is a scare tactic of those who want to quash scientific research which might prove them wrong….. see Galileo etc….. any theory like the Big Bang theory is constantly changing based on research findings……
G – I think what is being seen, is that the universe, through its primordial essence, has the inborn “urge” to create and evolve supportive environments where complex life forms can come into being, and “where the environment has reached that stage of support, that those complex forms would reach “self-awareness”………….. and if they find life on Mars, it would give more evidence that this is the case. So, everything is a part of that essence, and we as self-aware humans actually have “birthright” in that….. but chasm theology still abounds.